Hello, I'm the guy that made gullywash so it doesn't really matter what I say about this map it's ought to be awful no matter what. So now that we got that out of the way we can talk about this map.

I did change a significant portion of the lay-out based on the extv exhibition match so that's somewhat good news? Anyway some screenshots of the banana map changes below.

screenshots rc1
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http://i.imgur.com/JXVek.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IEuWO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uGpCV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SYzRe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9wUdO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LDtZq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V9YXp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aa79v.jpg

download rc3
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2824637/cp_croissant_rc3.bsp.bz2

I wasn't a fan of the old versions, but the changes to 2 and 3 look makes the map look much improved. Can you still fall off into a death pit from the side of mid?

Arnold, I've mirrored it on my USA server as well since that will probably download faster for folks here:
http://kritz.me/cp_croissant_b12.bsp.bz2

b12 is already on my server, I just have to see if people are willing to try playing it sometime. My server might also be moving to Dallas soon, so that might get in the way of the testing too.

You can not fall off the deathpit at mid anymore, only behind where the two towers connect you can still fall off.

Snipers shouldn't be as much of a problem i'm cutting down the problematic sightlines.

Waxpax, sounds good, let me know if you get to testing the map again, really appreciate it :)

Thanks for the usa mirror atmo :)

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/488875698007409389/539DC5CB8BD7C68AD3173B9F5161B95101595F10/

this rock looks pretty dark

ye they do, it's because the lighting isn't final, can't really do that while still in beta due to my shitty pc taking too long.

Okay, cool. Hopefully we can mix on it this evening, I have it on my server.

This map looks pretty cool. How come the file is so huge? Is that normal?

The filesize should be a little bigger than usual because i haven't really fully optimised it and it has some custom textures adding to the size.

That makes sense. I'm going to try to play this. :)

Serious question, is the cap time on last still long as hell?

I still don't understand why the last cp should be insta cap. When you think about it it was just a side effect of badlands last being hard to push, having a cp that caps slower allows teams to push out to cp2 more easily I also made last way easier to push into than any other cp by putting the height advantage at the choke so the defending team has to hold offensively.

At least that's the theory behind it. I know it isn't perfect yet so that's why i need playtesting.

Arnold wrote:

I still don't understand why the last cp should be insta cap.

Probably because even with a paintrain solly+spy trying for the last cap its still painfully slow.

Seems like it could use a slight adjustment to speed up the cap time. No need to go crazy fast but it probably should be faster then it currently caps now.

It is slow to cap and i did fasten it up it's just that I don't think you should win a round just because you had a spy and soldier wait around while you failed a push and let them recap cp2 without your team trying anything to stop that from happening (I assume your team doesn't because otherwise you should be able to backcap fairly easily with a spy and paintrain soldier)

I'm not saying I'll never adjust it if it proves problematic but I don't think my logic is that wrong.
And I'm not implying yours is it's just a choice I made to stray away from the ridiculous contrast in captime speed between cp2 and last just because the design of last favours defenders too much.

In my experience, it takes a full team of 6 with a 7th random huntsman sniper who connected on accident to actually win last.

true story.

Its not that it needs to be instant cap, but the biggest problem I've gotten from it is that, sure, its easier to push out of last, but its ridiculously hard to push into last because people spawn before a scout can even cap the point. If a demo with paintrain and a scout or 2 scouts or whatever get behind, they deserve that cap, the other team shouldn't have had such a gaping hole in their hold/push. I wish we had a demo of that hour long game that went to 2-3 and was the absolute least fun I've ever had playing this game so you can really know what I'm talking about.

Demo would really be helpful since cp1 caps faster than cp2 so saying you need everybody on the cp to make it possible to cap is a little overstated. I've seen plenty of rounds won by capping last without a full team and a random huntsman and without the defending team anywhere near spawning.
You just need better organisation.

Also you can still win a round if you backcap it's just that you'd have to coordinate it just a tiny tiny bit only to ensure it a little more. Cp1 still caps a lot faster than cp2 so I don't see the problem in theory and from the games i've specced.

I know I'm not trying to exaggerate, the 6th plus a 7th huntsman sniper thing actually happened so I wanted to throw that in.

Maybe it's just because I haven't scrimmed the map with a team that knows each other and has played together, only pugged it a lot. still, when 2 scouts get behind and everyone on the other team is out of position, they shouldn't have the time to come all the way back and kill both scouts.

There may also be a problem with the size of the point if you make the cap faster, so i can see why you made the choices on last that you did, and variance in game mechanics is good but i think you may have been better off with the standard small point short cap time.

http://www.mediafire.com/?d0xc7swwvswz0x1

stv from a pug from last night. I wasn't playing so I don't really know what the feedback was other than I heard a lot of people didn't enjoy playing it; no one really gave that many reasons to me why they didn't like, I told them to post the feedback for you, we'll have to see if they actually do. I don't know if this is the demo foster refers to with the random huntsman sniper, but if that game happened in my pug group, you should already have that demo. I have no idea when that happened, though, as I don't think I was playing then because I don't remember it at all.

changes to mid look real interestign Arnold, hope I cant get a game on it soon...

cevo will use any shitty map so ask them to use it next season and you'll have 3-5 teams play it

I liked the new version a bit better after playing it, the box on 2nd so you can actually get off the point if you get bounced onto it is nice for meds and demos.

Last is nice with only that small area up top that the attackers can spam through instead all the way to the ceiling like it used to be.

Mid is interesting, i love how blocked off most of the ramp area so it is harder to spam through. I think someone found a clip issue, you can jump on top of the new red house that you added but not the blue one.

Also, you may have made it harder to fall into the instadeath deathpit, but making that huge pit at middle is basically death for anything that falls all the way down there, though it really needs more testing to say that for sure.

People in the pug last night generally had the feeling that they still didn't like it, not enough had been changed dramatically enough to actually change their opinions on it :\. Personally, i liked it a bit better, and i think the little changes really helped, but i think i was in the minority on that.

I just checked to be sure but spawns on BLU are broken if you have their 2nd you still spawn way back

Thanks for the demo!

Thanks for the feedback foster i'll try and think of something to do with the lower half of mid.

@Brisk you are right the spawns are messed up. I'll be uploading a fix soon with reduced captimes on last.

fixed blu spawn
And reduced captimes on last

http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4645&act=down

changelog b13
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*fixed displacement bug
*added small route upward on mid lower half
*made the tunnel 1-way for non-jumpable classes by raising the exit
*removed the doorway behind cp2

download b13
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2824637/cp_croissant_b13.bsp.bz2

Changelog b14
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*widened catwalk to cp2
*moved the choke (cp2-3) around the corner
*elevated the mid cp a little
*removed 2 barriers at cp1
*moved 2nd forward spawn into the new towers on mid, now you don't have to turn just run straight ahead when you spawn
*hidden 46 birds
*reduced filesize

Download (b14)
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2824637/cp_croissant_b14.bsp.bz2

Screenshots
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http://i.imgur.com/hVLC0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nmXuK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fWxsF.jpg

Arnold wrote:

Changelog b14

*hidden 46 birds

AWWWWWWW YEEAAAHHHHHHH

download b15
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2824637/cp_croissant_b15.bsp.bz2

Screens changes
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http://i.imgur.com/mPyzQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8sCXS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/srySd.jpg

Here is the pug that I apparently forgot to send you because I didn't play in it. Sorry and I'll try to make sure the demos get to the mappers more efficiently in the future:

http://www.mediafire.com/?btg4ace7oa41lga

It was on b14, I don't think we've tried to play b15.

If we played on b13 any, I don't have the demos for them, I'll see if donut or someone else has them if they exist and you want to see them.