cp_profront_b3 out now!! http://www.mediafire.com/?jq2ny0bkkpd1p4m
changes to b3:
• Fixed glass on last capture point not being symmetrical on both red and blu sides
• Fixed a small geometry problem that allowed medics to hop on the wall behind point
• Fixed the lighting in the lobby
• Replaced the pipe at the middle choke with a more aesthetically pleasing, geometrically intuitive cliff
• Raised the lights on last capture areas

Intro:
This map is a modified version of warmfront changed specifically to cater to 6v6. My main intent was to fix ONLY what interfered with game play while leaving everything else under a "IF IT AINT BROKEN, DONT FIX IT" policy. This is the same approach I took with koth_pro_viaduct. Big thanks to chojje and gonfin who actually did the hammer work and followed my suggestions.

Last Changes:
Most of my changes revolved around last and trying to make it easier to push. The biggest problem was that the defending team could delay their uber until after the attacking teams uber wore out by kiting the attacking teams uber around the point and through a sentry or heavy. This made the original warmfront one of the hardest points to capture in 6v6. I added a wall behind the point to prevent the defending team from being able to just hide behind the point and kite the attacking teams uber around it.

With the floor of the last point flattened out everywhere it makes more sense for the defending combo to hold up close now that they wont get destroyed by high ground advantage for standing in the middle of the room. This allows the defending team to pop the attacking teams uber earlier in the push.

To counter-balance the sooner uber fight that the map's geometry is forcing I turned 2 out of 3 doorways into simply hallways to reduce the strength of sticky traps. It's still possible to sticky in the far side hall doorway, as that remains the same, but the center and doorway on the other side are now hallways.

Mid Changes:
Added a pipe that would prevent the horrific forward spawn to cliff sight-line where snipers could pick people coming out of spawn when the source engine wasn't even drawing the wall behind them. This pipe also clips off the middle entrance to mid making it harder to bomb the medic at mid.

Added more surface area where you could cap the middle point, which will make the mid fight the same but we will see more turnovers after that since it should be simpler to re-take. The current version of mid is really easy to defend because you could wait for the entire attacking team to get on the point and then bomb on them and spam them out inside a tiny area which walled them into basically a can of spam. The middle area is actually the same, its only the point layout that changed.

Summary:
Play test this version :) I think warmfront deserves a fresh breathe of life, as the original coldfront was one of the least play tested maps we use in ESEA. We even saw granary get recently changed not so long ago after it was released in 2007. Warmfront is actually one of my favorite maps but I agree that the amount of time spent on last ruined the fun.

Screenshots:
http://i.imgur.com/mTgMH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QJiew.jpg

Download Link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jq2ny0bkkpd1p4m

Sweet, will get some mixes on this during the week and shoot chojje the stvs.

Really like the ideas, will get some games going on it later if I can.

on red last the back of the last point is open and you can jump on the point from behind while on blue its closed off.

foster wrote:

on red last the back of the last point is open and you can jump on the point from behind while on blue its closed off.

ill have that fixed asap.

nice work to everyone. looking forward to playing it on na.

I just spent about 5 minutes looking at the changes and I think the wall thing you did makes it easier to run from an uber. A medic can stand on the wall behind point, the pocket can stand ontop of the first ring of the point. No matter what direction a team pushes with uber, the medic can just fall down behind the wall with the pocket on the opposite side of the uber push.

Also I just discovered you can stand on all the rafters above the point.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/469738043665854691/C0C2355644997C5C30507592902E324651E2155A/

i love when people mention how bad warmfront is and mention obscure and standin as alternatives

NeoRussia wrote:

why would you take one of the worst maps in the game and try to improve it...

instead of taking something actually fun to play. There's no way you can change warmfront to be good just scrap it and give us a new map to play. croissant, obscure, even standin. Don't ever want to see warmfront again, thanks.

warmfront isnt a bad map all around, just last point. he tried to fix last and it its easier to push maybe it will be a good map to play.

I'm not sure if I like the changes to the last point

also need a lot more lighting in the lobby

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/468611959401136578/53F79D4A6AEFFADC9013E4D5C7843F52CF7B18B3/

Mid is great, good changes.

But last needs work. Firstly, it just looks ugly. The flatness reminds me of some lame mge arena. There has to some sort of height advantage. Every point on every map has some height advantages. All that is here is a box or two, standing on the point's ring, or those glass walls.
Scouts will be demolished on last. This would encourage heavies and such which just reverts the idea of easier to push.
This is what I believe would work well. Keep the old warm/coldfront last ( http://bit.ly/wlenYU ) with the elevated sides and lower middle, but push the point back into the half circle cut out on the back wall. Pushing the point into wall prevents kiting the uber around the point as combos will have to move infront of the point to switch sides, which could be dangerous. Then remove a lot of the empty space around the point. Perhaps bring the walls in, make the whole area a bit more narrow, and remove some space between the glass walls and the point. Or bring the back wall to the point. Whichever is easier to make I suppose.

Basically making the area of last smaller means less uber wasted getting toward the defending combo. The defending combo cant hide behind the point at all and must hold one of the elevated sides, like badlands last. The spawn room is too large to do a wrap around and crossing in front of the point could be risky.

The wider, more corridor like entrances are nice, good addition.

The worst part about the last point you made was that the little stairs are gone. No more flashy stair slides on right side demo rollout. :[

can you just make it badlands mid and last

actually put a spire on two as well

leave the grass i think its nice

we'll call it greenlands

NeoRussia wrote:

why would you take one of the worst maps in the game and try to improve it...

ROFL

DAT LOGIC

short wrote:

Mid is great, good changes.

But last needs work. Firstly, it just looks ugly. The flatness reminds me of some lame mge arena. There has to some sort of height advantage. Every point on every map has some height advantages. All that is here is a box or two, standing on the point's ring, or those glass walls.
Scouts will be demolished on last. This would encourage heavies and such which just reverts the idea of easier to push.
This is what I believe would work well. Keep the old warm/coldfront last ( http://bit.ly/wlenYU ) with the elevated sides and lower middle, but push the point back into the half circle cut out on the back wall. Pushing the point into wall prevents kiting the uber around the point as combos will have to move infront of the point to switch sides, which could be dangerous. Then remove a lot of the empty space around the point. Perhaps bring the walls in, make the whole area a bit more narrow, and remove some space between the glass walls and the point. Or bring the back wall to the point. Whichever is easier to make I suppose.

Basically making the area of last smaller means less uber wasted getting toward the defending combo. The defending combo cant hide behind the point at all and must hold one of the elevated sides, like badlands last. The spawn room is too large to do a wrap around and crossing in front of the point could be risky.

The wider, more corridor like entrances are nice, good addition.

The worst part about the last point you made was that the little stairs are gone. No more flashy stair slides on right side demo rollout. :[

I dont really care if last is boring or flat or scouts suck or if it resembles two men having anal sex. As long as we dont spend 25 minutes out of a 30 minute scrim pushing last, I'm happy with it. Play test it, and if you can actually push last then that's all I care about, but thanks though, I will consider adding more height advantage in the next version.

Also, scouts do quite well in granary yard which is flat and on granary last where only soldiers can utilize the height advantage so I'm not too worried about it hindering scouts from being useful.

Black Dynamite wrote:

I just spent about 5 minutes looking at the changes and I think the wall thing you did makes it easier to run from an uber. A medic can stand on the wall behind point, the pocket can stand ontop of the first ring of the point. No matter what direction a team pushes with uber, the medic can just fall down behind the wall with the pocket on the opposite side of the uber push.

A medic can't get on the wall, its just tall enough for a scout to double jump over it.

yeah lets get some mixes and then after maybe some practice clan wars

:)

cu@lan

flat_ground

maybe i'll actually be able to hit some rockets now

we need to playtest this asap so we can get minor issues out of the way, that way we may be able to replace warmfront in ESEA before the season starts and standin can finally go away

Black Dynamite wrote:

Also I just discovered you can stand on all the rafters above the point.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/469738043665854691/C0C2355644997C5C30507592902E324651E2155A/

its for mackey to hide on

Vhalin wrote:

Black Dynamite wrote:

A medic can stand on the wall.

A medic can't get on the wall, its just tall enough for a scout to double jump over it.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/504640756406354519/73190A932473A097D0153AB46BB8840C95169332/

Change the texture back to snow. That grass stuff is awful and makes it harder to see players

Vhalin wrote:

Black Dynamite wrote:

I just spent about 5 minutes looking at the changes and I think the wall thing you did makes it easier to run from an uber. A medic can stand on the wall behind point, the pocket can stand ontop of the first ring of the point. No matter what direction a team pushes with uber, the medic can just fall down behind the wall with the pocket on the opposite side of the uber push.

A medic can't get on the wall, its just tall enough for a scout to double jump over it.

weeble wrote:

Change the texture back to snow. That grass stuff is awful and makes it harder to see players

and everyone gets worse frames on warmfront then coldfront

Vhalin I think you can make the changes you want but at the same time preserve the look and feel of the map.

Instead of just adding a random pipe at mid why not extend the planks further upward or, better yet, add an enclosed covered bridge (or something interesting) there? It would serve the same purpose of eliminating the sight line and the jumps, but it would also look a whole lot better.

Same with last. Instead of a random tiny wall, what about a broader, elevated platform with a small healthpack/ammopack? Medics still can't get up and across, and it seems like it belongs there. Of course there's still the sentry issue.

What about blocking off the area behind the point completely from floor to ceiling? If you added a narrow door or hallway there, players could still move behind the point from side to side. At the same time though it would be difficult for a medic to kite an uber through because he/she would have to escape through the doorway, likely eating a lot of spam in the process.

also red last is missing those walls behind the point

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/468611959412331413/624B2FBC0BAA192CA3181F9B48E6E08AC0D488A5/

Black Dynamite wrote:

Vhalin wrote:

Black Dynamite wrote:

A medic can stand on the wall.

A medic can't get on the wall, its just tall enough for a scout to double jump over it.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/504640756406354519/73190A932473A097D0153AB46BB8840C95169332/

edit: This is what I mean SPOILER

That or frio's idea are fine. I was worried about the right side demo rollout getting ruined if it the wall to last wasn't angled but I just tested the rollout and it won't matter.

Also, maybe the pillar/girder next the left/right spawn doors could be removed if the wall's put there. It would really clutter up the door

how would you get out of spawn what
is this what you mean

red would be a wall