What's so bad about process

thrickstr wrote:

This is one of the things that goes against ESEA. The TF2 community have legitimate and reasonable questions and their admins either hide (by not answering) or post immature answers. They know you have nowhere to go if you don't like it; therefore, they don't have to give a shit.

I will answer every single question.

Go.

who picked process
why did said person pick process over other maps such as snakewater
why, for two seasons in a row, have new and untested maps been placed at week 6
when certain teams have to play 3 matches in week one, why in hell do they lose a map on badlands to make up for it

goddamn dan is on an anger roll

Why do dead teams get scheduled for matches? Low/mid Open teams (and IM teams) are still getting FFWs.

Why don't the players in playoffs vote for the maps they want to play in playoffs?

LtCrumpet wrote:

who picked process
why did said person pick process over other maps such as snakewater
why, for two seasons in a row, have new and untested maps been placed at week 6
when certain teams have to play 3 matches in week one, why in hell do they lose a map on badlands to make up for it

Me (obviously kalkin read it over and ok'ed it, I'm not head admin or anything)
Nobody was complaining about process so I stuck it in there. I like having new maps rather than old ones.
I place them at week 6 because you don't want to start off with a new map when people are just getting used to the team but you don't want to put them at the end since people want standard maps for tiebreakers. You also need to mix in gpit at some point so week 6 comes out nicely.
I might be wrong but it randomly chooses what week they lose a map on, it just happened to land on badlands for your team.

VickM wrote:

Why do dead teams get scheduled for matches? Low/mid Open teams (and IM teams) are still getting FFWs.

Why don't the players in playoffs vote for the maps they want to play in playoffs?

If I have 16 teams and 1 is dead, what do I do with the 15th team? You can't just not give them a match. I could go into a deeper explanation but eventually when you are marked dead (after 4 ffls, note you have matches assigned after this point), you stop receiving matches.

The would be a crazy complicated vote. Would they vote for each round? Which map they don't want to see? Which map they do? Without even going into it, I can already tell that thing would create bad results (everyone doesn't want process and some people don't want gpit but people like gpit (like that season gpit gets voted out)). Also I rarely make policy so it's not technically up to me but i'd reject it regardless.

Killing12 wrote:

If I have 16 teams and 1 is dead, what do I do with the 15th team? You can't just not give them a match. I could go into a deeper explanation but eventually when you are marked dead (after 4 ffls, note you have matches assigned after this point), you stop receiving matches.

Is there a deeper explanation anywhere? I think that a lot of other Open teams I've talked to are pretty annoyed at playing half a season (we got something like 4 FFWs and I know some teams got more), and I know for a fact we had multiple weeks where we and teams that I was in contact with and never scheduled to play both got FFWs. Just seems like a waste to me.

i can understand wanting to put in maps that people like into playoffs. what i cant understand is the thought process behind creating the particular list of maps for playoffs. ok so you want to put in maps people like, how does that end up excluding snakewater in any way? at this point, gullywash and warmfront are the maps that "most" people really dislike, and while i like both of those maps removing snakewater in either of their place and keeping in process over all of them just seems wildly mis-judged.

Wait guys there's a more important question we're forgetting to ask.
Did you guys look at it upside down?

http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/forums/thread/439414/

VickM wrote:

Is there a deeper explanation anywhere? I think that a lot of other Open teams I've talked to are pretty annoyed at playing half a season (we got something like 4 FFWs and I know some teams got more), and I know for a fact we had multiple weeks where we and teams that I was in contact with and never scheduled to play both got FFWs. Just seems like a waste to me.

Alright, I think there are two parts to your question. I think. First off, what is your definition of a dead team? Are we discussing this? In ESEA, when you get 4ffls you are marked dead BUT you are given 2 weeks of matches in advance so just that causes a lot of ffws. Now obviously the teams at the bottom tend to be the one that die because they are at the bottom. I've been thinking about a way to fix this issue for the past 2 years but for the life of me cannot find a solution. The only way to fix this is for there to be more teams therefore creating more fair competition and less teams dying.

Now I don't really understand the last part of ", and I know for a fact we had multiple weeks where we and teams that I was in contact with and never scheduled to play both got FFWs.". I'm a bit confused by what you mean but I believe what you're talking about is that the match got defaulted and nobody showed up since this is not a time you agreed upon, expected to eventually place it and woke up with an ffw/ffl. The reason for this is that at the end of the night all matches must have results for them. YOU CANNOT JUST LEAVE A MATCH. At the end of the night, we randomly ff every match without a result. This is so that matches don't just get left till the end of the season and never get played. See ehfk reign for more info <3

I hope that answers that, if not please clarify.

milehighmilitia wrote:

i can understand wanting to put in maps that people like into playoffs. what i cant understand is the thought process behind creating the particular list of maps for playoffs. ok so you want to put in maps people like, how does that end up excluding snakewater in any way? at this point, gullywash and warmfront are the maps that "most" people really dislike, and while i like both of those maps removing snakewater in either of their place and keeping in process over all of them just seems wildly mis-judged.

I had snakewater really heavily played last season (I believe twice in open bracket) and actually received flack for that because SNAKEWATER IS SO BORING. Now if I'm going to get shit for every map I put in then fuck it let's change it up. Maybe I'll decide to leave out gullywash for next season and put in snakewater .. if anything there's a very high change. With that said, I had to leave out 2 maps. Process didn't get any shit so I wanted to include it and gully is a bit better than snakewater (there's plenty of people that hate both, go check the threads from the beginning of the season). Unless I missed something and people hated process as much as standin, I still stand by this decision.

ninjanick wrote:

Wait guys there's a more important question we're forgetting to ask.
Did you guys look at it upside down?

http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/forums/thread/439414/

THANK YOU SIR! I've been looking for that thread. A classic in my heart.

Favorited.

slippin with slipz has been dead since week one yet they were still scheduled matches through week 8. In fact that is the case for all 3 dead IM teams, although the rest died at different times.

lets imagine all 3 of them were dead from week one, and based upon happenings of the past season i will assume all of them receive 16 fill matches. that ends up accounting for 16*3=48 wins throughout the division for a season. 48 free wins essentially assigned by admins/ESEA...

these wins are essentially wins that get assigned "at random" to the lower portions of the division, in the end giving teams with 4 or more ffw's a chance at making playoffs in the place of teams that have only 0-1 ffw.

milehighmilitia wrote:

slippin with slipz has been dead since week one yet they were still scheduled matches through week 8. In fact that is the case for all 3 dead IM teams, although the rest died at different times.

I believe cucumbers had all their matches before they were marked dead. The other two, I'll send to my boss because it is quite peculiar.

Why does TF2 not get much influence in the esea administration. An example would be the inability to change pug servers to league match servers?

Killing12 wrote:

milehighmilitia wrote:

slippin with slipz has been dead since week one yet they were still scheduled matches through week 8. In fact that is the case for all 3 dead IM teams, although the rest died at different times.

I believe cucumbers had all their matches before they were marked dead. The other two, I'll send to my boss because it is quite peculiar.

js/stp have tried to revive their team like 5 seperate times so it was a bit of a mixed up situation

#41 (killing)

i think he meant, that if 2 teams play 2 different teams that are declared dead and therefore receive ffws, instead those 2 teams should be matched against each other, rather than dead ones.

in essence, dead teams would be removed from the rotation of the match system, and live teams would just play one team more than once, rather than receive a ffw from a dead one

but i doubt you have any control over that.. its just bad programming

edit: might have been addressed, didnt post in time

since i didn't cut everyone, firebot wasn't marked dead until it passed the ffl limit, which was pushed back artificially because of 3 matches against slipz.

jerryjiggler wrote:

Why does TF2 not get much influence in the esea administration. An example would be the inability to change pug servers to league match servers?

There are a couple of dedicated pugs servers (2?). The rest are used as league servers.

My answer is no, you're wrong.

unf wrote:

#41 (killing)

i think he meant, that if 2 teams play 2 different teams that are declared dead and therefore receive ffws, instead those 2 teams should be matched against each other, rather than dead ones.

in essence, dead teams would be removed from the rotation of the match system, and live teams would just play one team more than once, rather than receive a ffw from a dead one

but i doubt you have any control over that.. its just bad programming

edit: might have been addressed, didnt post in time

Ah, if that's what you meant then those teams were probably "dead" in your eyes but not actually esea marked "dead". In that case, there's really nothing we can do besides change the definition of dead. That's just how the cookie crumbles.

Killing12 wrote:

jerryjiggler wrote:

Why does TF2 not get much influence in the esea administration. An example would be the inability to change pug servers to league match servers?

There are a couple of dedicated pugs servers (2?). The rest are used as league servers.

My answer is no, you're wrong.

what can we do to change the definition of dead

LtCrumpet wrote:

what can we do to change the definition of dead

What would your definition be?

jerryjiggler wrote:

Killing12 wrote:

jerryjiggler wrote:

Why does TF2 not get much influence in the esea administration. An example would be the inability to change pug servers to league match servers?

There are a couple of dedicated pugs servers (2?). The rest are used as league servers.

My answer is no, you're wrong.

I had an idea there were more pug servers. my bad.
What about this where it clearly doesn't apply to tf2 and yet it is still banned for tf2 players?
http://natf2.com/topics/5095-new-rules-i-guess

I'm not an expert on the changes that that tool provides but I'd strongly encourage you to make a ticket under inquiry or suggestion because I think you have a case.

Killing12 wrote:

I'm not an expert on the changes that that tool provides but I'd strongly encourage you to make a ticket under inquiry or suggestion because I think you have a case.

can we get back on topic please...

snakewater has been played during LAN since season 8, and for the past 2 LAN's it has been played in the championship round. Better remove it from IM playoffs for process. logical?

milehighmilitia wrote:

can we get back on topic please...

snakewater has been played during LAN since season 8, and for the past 2 LAN's it has been played in the championship round. Better remove it from IM playoffs for process. logical?

unless i missed a post where you removed process and added snakewater i dont think i need to read anything, again...

Killing12 wrote:

LtCrumpet wrote:

what can we do to change the definition of dead

What would your definition be?